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Subject: "White Wall Tires?" Archived thread - Read only
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ben
Member since Sep-3-03
16 posts		 Apr-29-04, 01:07 PM (EDT)
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"White Wall Tires?"
 
   I'm looking to put some white walls on my scooter, but don't really want to spend $50+ per tire. What kind of luck have people had with the Sava's? They seem to be significantly less expensive. I need to have a tire that works well in wet weather. How do the Sava's perform? If I have to spend the extra for a quality tire, I will but would rather not.

Thanks
Ben


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Flaco
unregistered user
 Apr-29-04, 01:10 PM (EDT)
 
1. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #0
 
   White Walls are show tires. Neither Continentals nor Savas work well in wet weather.

If you want a tire that will have performance behind it, do so and add white wall inserts, then you can have the best of both worlds.

Flaco


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The Shifty Jesus
Member since Mar-29-04
72 posts		 Apr-29-04, 01:18 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #1
 
   I'm going to argue with you on that. My Conti Zippy 3's work pretty damn well in wet weather; much better than I thought they would. This was about a 25-30 mile ride home on Easter:

I know nothing of this Sava you speak of.


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James_ATX
Member since May-15-03
151 posts		 Apr-29-04, 01:34 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #2
 
   I think he just meant Continental and Sava whitewalls suck on wet roads. Both of those companies make good wet road tires too, they're just not whitewalls.


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ben
Member since Sep-3-03
16 posts		 Apr-29-04, 01:20 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #1
 
   I have to agree, I am very happy with the wet weather performance of my Zippy 3's too.


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Todd S
Member since Jun-7-02
227 posts		 Apr-29-04, 01:20 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #1
 
   I remember hearing some not so good stories about white wall inserts...check the archives.

-Todd


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magnetmaz
Member since Dec-14-03
227 posts		 Apr-29-04, 01:22 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #4
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-04 AT 01:22 PM (EDT)
 
i also have heard bad things about the inserts. I'm perfectly happy with my Sava whitewalls on my Rally 200.

-Eric in Detroit


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surferbruce
Member since Jul-24-02
834 posts		 Apr-29-04, 04:57 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #5
 
   so far i have no complaints about my sava whitewalls either. they're not a racing tire but for just cruising around they're fine. now why they can't make ww's with a modern tread in 3.5's i don't know.


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magnetmaz
Member since Dec-14-03
227 posts		 Apr-29-04, 06:06 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #7
 
   they DO make sava whitewalls with modern tread....i saw them the other day on some online store, and they were CHEAPER by almost 8 bucks. *tries to remember online store* I remember seeing them and saying "holy crap!" but then being discouraged because of the modern style tread pattern.


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GuyB
Member since Jan-11-03
237 posts		 Apr-29-04, 06:40 PM (EDT)
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13. "ASC has them.."
In response to message #12
 
   ASC has the sport tread sava whitewalls for $35
http://www.americanscootercenter.com/part_detail.php?part_id=549

cheers,
Guy

http://www.deadenderssc.com
http://www.pennyfortheguy.com


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James_ATX
Member since May-15-03
151 posts		 Apr-29-04, 06:41 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #12
 
   Only for smallframes, though. I've never seen a sport tread sava whitewall in a 3.5x10


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surferbruce
Member since Jul-24-02
834 posts		 Apr-29-04, 09:23 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: i have those on my smallframe"
In response to message #14
 
   sava makes em in the 3" smallie sizeand a 120/70/10, but no 3.5".personally i think whitewalls almost always make a scoot look better.


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GuyB
Member since Jan-11-03
237 posts		 Apr-29-04, 05:22 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #1
 
   I had no problem wet or dry with my old Whitewall Sava's, the only headache was keeping them white but Wesley's helps with that.

cheers,
Guy

http://www.deadenderssc.com
http://www.pennyfortheguy.com


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radiO
Member since Jun-15-02
486 posts		 Apr-29-04, 05:51 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #9
 
   yeah, that stuff rules! but it's called:

-radiO

www.topdeadcentersc.com


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GuyB
Member since Jan-11-03
237 posts		 Apr-29-04, 05:53 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #10
 
   Ooops, sorry for the spelling mistake I only go by pictures:))

Guy

http://www.deadenderssc.com
http://www.pennyfortheguy.com


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John M Stafford
Member since Jun-3-02
3213 posts		 Apr-29-04, 05:18 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #0
 
   Forget Whitewalls. Whitewalls will be the biggest maintenance headache on your bike if you do serious riding. Just get a pair of Sava Reflectives, they look like whitewalls, the glow in the dark, and they stick to the road like glue, wet or dry.

Enjoy,
John M. Stafford


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 Apr-29-04, 06:41 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #8
 
   Sava whitewalls are shit.Thats all there is to it.theyre a cheap budget tyre.They go beige after 5 minutes as well.....furthermore theyre apparently dngerous!
check the LCGB message board archives for the full story.
if you're lucky they crack on the outside and you can see it.if unlucky they go on the inside,casuing a blowout.Not funny at all.
Conti whitewalls are fine.Wet or dry,makes no difference,they grip fine.theyre just zippys with white walls...a good tyre.sava's are NOT a good tyre.
Never had any problems with inserts either.....


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surferbruce
Member since Jul-24-02
834 posts		 Apr-29-04, 09:27 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #15
 
   i gotta disagree. i've run sava's for a couple years w/out any probs. they have not yellow'd, unlike every conti i see. in fact everything i've heard is the current sava tire is of superior quality to the now also asian made continental.


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John M Stafford
Member since Jun-3-02
3213 posts		 Apr-30-04, 08:52 AM (EDT)
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20. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #15
 
   Sava has QC'd those tires quite a bit since the year 2000 batch you're referring to. That said I still hate whitewalls.

Enjoy,
John M. Stafford


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imjuanpablo
Member since Jun-7-02
842 posts		 Apr-30-04, 12:45 PM (EDT)
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27. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #8
 
   I love my Sava Reflectives too........the single white stripe looks cool too.....reminds me of the tires on my first car, as 73 Chevy Impala.....I miss that car.....huge boat, trucking around 30 friends at a time....sigh.

John F.


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Special X England
unregistered user
 May-04-04, 07:44 AM (EDT)
 
30. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #8
 
   Whether they're dot marked or not sava tyres are lethal, they crack up internally and rip the inner tube causing a sudden loss of pressure. If you use save tyres you risk serious injury or death. It's just not worth the risk. In the UK we'd rather pay $80/90 per tyre than run on sava's.


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imjuanpablo
Member since Jun-7-02
842 posts		 May-04-04, 06:08 PM (EDT)
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32. "????????????????????"
In response to message #30
 
   huh? wha? never heard of this......and I've ran different types of savas on many of my scooters for the past 7 years or so.....maybe their quality was worse way back when....cannot say.

John F.


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marrguitar
unregistered user
 Apr-29-04, 07:42 PM (EDT)
 
16. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #0
 
   i like continental white walls, savas are good for slow wide frame scooters that are sunday drivers. scootrs.com has cool whitewall inserts red, blu line inside havent tried them yet though.


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 Apr-30-04, 05:25 AM (EDT)
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19. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #16
 
   fair enough disagree then.....its your life on the line,not mine.
the subject of Sava Whitewalls has come up on the Lambretta Club site again today.Go check it out for yourself.

http://cgi.bowden.force9.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=chatter1;action=display;num=1083277324


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cphilip
Member since Jul-16-03
1803 posts		 Apr-30-04, 10:28 AM (EDT)
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23. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #19
 
   Again.... several have pointed out to you that the information your linking is dated. Things change. Sava went on a rampage to change that QC issue and have indeed managed to do so. They decent good tires now, at least in my experience with them. The whitewall are fine but hard to keep gleeming. But all white walls pretty much are.


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Chelsea
Member since Jun-3-02
2376 posts		 Apr-30-04, 10:36 AM (EDT)
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24. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #23
 
   Allow me to also back up the fact that the Sava tire now is TOTALLY different from the sava tires that were all crappy. We got a bike in the shop about 3, 4 yrs ago with a set of sava whitewalls. The man hadn't even RIDDEN the bike and the tires were cracked and awful, dryrot central. These tires also did not have the stamp of being DOT approved, which means they were not actually legal for import into the United States since they had not passed all the necessary testing stuff.

The Sava tires now ARE DOT approved, and are very safe and have none of the problems of the previous load of tires.

That said, they are certainly not a sport tire and if you like to blaze the corners then I don't recommend them.

Chelsea
:: : : ::: ::: : :: :: : :: :::
Scomo (Scooters O Mail Order)
toll free 877 SCOOT 25
not so toll free 804 355 5766
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Check out Scomo's current auctions without going thru a bunch of emo t-shirts!
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John M Stafford
Member since Jun-3-02
3213 posts		 Apr-30-04, 08:54 AM (EDT)
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21. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #16
 
   The whitewall inserts have a nasty habit of rubbing the front brake and speedo cables, I don't recommend them either.

Enjoy,
John M. Stafford


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Flaco
unregistered user
 Apr-30-04, 09:56 AM (EDT)
 
22. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #21
 
   John, that problem can be fixed with a single zip-tie, which is how I "corrected" the same problem on my Vespa which was rubbing without inserts.

For the record, I have Sava's on my scooter and think they're a good tire.

-Flaco


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 Apr-30-04, 11:05 AM (EDT)
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25. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #22
 
   maybe you're lucky over there and there are no dodgy sava's anywhere in the entire US.
Crap ones still turn up in the UK.The problem still exists.
Go to lcgb.co.uk and click on the message board for more.
How would you know which batch they were from anyway??


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g
Member since Apr-25-03
849 posts		 Apr-30-04, 11:28 AM (EDT)
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26. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #25
 
   We live in the information age and I think you can find the lot # on the inside of your new Savas, besides the DOT approval on the outside. g.


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John M Stafford
Member since Jun-3-02
3213 posts		 Apr-30-04, 01:35 PM (EDT)
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28. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #25
 
   Jesus, what are you, the anti-Sava broken record? We heard you the first six times. However, I like my Savas.

Enjoy,
John M. Stafford


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english marty
unregistered user
 May-03-04, 06:52 PM (EDT)
 
29. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #28
 
   Do you have sava WHITEWALLS?
If so do you not like tyres that grip the road?
I have a pair on my Li and they are getting replaced by S83s as soon as possible, they are shite. Whether or not they are still as dangerous as the members of the LCGB claim due to them causing blow-outs at high speeds or on long runs I'm not 100% sure but you have to corner like a granny on them. Try riding a scooter fitted with S1s, take a corner at a reasonable speed and you'll never want crap like the sava whitewall near your bike again.


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FB
unregistered user
 May-04-04, 05:47 PM (EDT)
 
31. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #29
 
   An observation.

On my P2 with S1's I can ground the Sito+ exhaust on bends. On anything with a pattern that looks anything like that >> I wouldn't even try, I've crashed too often due to crap tyres in the past. And that really does LOOKS like a crap tread pattern.

Still, it's your life your risking.


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-05-04, 11:05 AM (EDT)
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33. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #31
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-05-04 AT 11:22 AM (EDT)
 
I'll try to post a few pics of what they look like after a bit of use later........


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Special X from England
unregistered user
 May-05-04, 12:19 PM (EDT)
 
34. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #33
 
   Hope Guy doesn't send you pics of the results of Sava blowouts. The cops over here take a very dim view of people publishing pics of corpses. Don't risk your lives on these tyres it just isn't worth it.
One of the lads at the lambretta club site in the UK has Emailed Sava. They know about all these postings why don't they answer or threaten to sue us. BECAUSE WE CAN PROVE WHAT WE SAY!!


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surferbruce
Member since Jul-24-02
834 posts		 May-05-04, 12:37 PM (EDT)
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35. "RE:ASSC"
In response to message #34
 
   anti-sava scooter club.

represent!


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FB
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 05:33 PM (EDT)
 
36. "Sava photos."
In response to message #35
 
   Guy has forwarded the photos to me to host on my website (scooterboy-world.com).

I'll have them up later.


check /sava.htm


I'm sorry John M. you were saying?


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-06-04, 05:52 PM (EDT)
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37. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #36
 
   LAST EDITED ON May-06-04 AT 05:53 PM (EDT)
 
The full link.

http://www.scooterboy-world.com/sava.htm
The bottom 2 pics were taken fully inflated still on the rim,the other 3 were deflated and off the rim.
this tyre was the spare off a GS160 with very low mileage and had always been kept correctly inflated.
The other spare on the scooter is a NOS MIchelin ACS that lives on the back rack.Its been there since 1998,is considerably older than this Sava,and is NOT suffering any cracking etc....
The inside of this tyre was actually perfect,and caused no damage to the innertube.Look at the cracks..right down to the threads.
Would you fancy riding home on this?
For what it's worth...Savas arent the only culprits..Swallow tyres with the white line and white lettering do this too,and got such bad name they were re-released with the name Schwalbe...German for swallow.
Scootering tyre test gave the Schwalbe a score of zero in the tyre test.Andy refused to use it on the track on the grounds it was oval,not round!


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FB
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 06:23 PM (EDT)
 
38. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #37
 
   ooooooooooooooooooh Swallows - I'd forgotten them. I had them on my 225 briefly.

Very briefly.


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-06-04, 06:34 PM (EDT)
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39. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #38
 
   I had a batch of them...they seemed OK at first as a budget tyre.Ended up giving refunds on a good few.....
I had an Li Special myself with one fitted as a spare on the backrack.it was cracked as hell after 6 months despite never having been used...big splits between the treads just like that sava.
The last few were dumped..still brand new.No fucking way was i selling them to anyone.Utter shit.


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FrankB
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 07:09 PM (EDT)
 
41. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #39
 
   OK - So it sounds like you are a dealer. Have you contacted your distributor or whoever supplied you directly concerning this?

This was a problem in 2002 in the states with an entire Sava batch. I personally had two blowouts on my bike with the same dry rot problem.

At Amerivespa last year my wife had her blowout. Fortunately, the US Sava distributor (200cc) was at the rally and my wife went at him.

He immediately apologized gave us with free black tires to put on our bikes at the rally and six brand new Whitewalls (free at the local shop) because of the known batch defect.

There have been no problems since. Over 1000 miles on the replacements.


FrankB


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-06-04, 07:18 PM (EDT)
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45. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #41
 
   well...thank you Frank B....so you had these probs in 2002.Glad it's not just us.
I never stocked savas as a dealer.The swallow supplier had long since vanished whn the problems started,but exactly the same as that Sava in the pics has done.
Kind of puts the mockers on mr Stafford whos been shouting non-stop about how it was only one batch from 2000...Dry rot describes it excellently.
'Someones taken a knife to it'...
If that wasn't pathetic it'd just be funny.....


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FrankB
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 08:57 PM (EDT)
 
51. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #45
 
   No problem. Everyone here in the States is pretty much aware of the Sava issue. I think (hope) every reputable shops have swapped these at this point.

The damage is obvious because it is not caused by riding wear at all - my wife's spare had a fucking huge split in it - ZERO Usage.

Not to leap to Stafford's defense but it does look like a slash - until you rotate the tire and bend it in fun ways to see a shitload of scary little cracks going all over the place.

Anyway - Take the tyres or tires as we say and shove them in the fuckers face who sold them to you.

FrankB


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John M Stafford
Member since Jun-3-02
3213 posts		 May-06-04, 07:07 PM (EDT)
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40. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #37
 
   1. I wouldn't be caught dead or alive ride on any whitewall tires. Sava, Conti, nor Swallow. To paraphrase Jeff Spicoli: "Whitewalls are for fags."
2. What are the year and batch number on those tires? There was a know and public issue with Sava and their early '00s tires.
3. I have yet to hear you show me an example of another bad Sava tire aside from the whitewalls.
4. Honestly that picture looks like somebody took a knife to the tire, it does not look like a defect, just send me the tire and I'll investigate.

Enjoy,
John M. Stafford


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-06-04, 07:13 PM (EDT)
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42. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #40
 
   you're having a laugh arent you?
'Someone's taken a knife to it' yeah right....all the way down the base of the treads? Without damaging the cords inside at all? Oh come on....
Are you seriously saying youve NEVER seen a tyre crack like that before?


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FB
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 07:16 PM (EDT)
 
43. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #42
 
   Leave it Guy, he's obviously got shares in Sava.


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-06-04, 07:22 PM (EDT)
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47. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #40
 
   Pay the postage from the Uk and you can have the tyre.Save me taking it to the local tip....if you like I'll weigh it and get you prices for air and surface mail.
Honestly...the postage will probably cost more than a new tyre...but if you want to pay money for a fucked tyre thats OK by me.


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g
Member since Apr-25-03
849 posts		 May-06-04, 07:17 PM (EDT)
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44. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #37
 
   I thought you were going to post the pics of the brits who bit the pavement because of the faulty Savas. g.


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-06-04, 07:19 PM (EDT)
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46. "RE: Sava photos."
In response to message #44
 
   No,that would be naughty!!


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rev up
Member since Jun-7-02
247 posts		 May-06-04, 07:46 PM (EDT)
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48. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #0
 
   I've never ridden on Savas but I can say that I've had German made Conti whitewalls on my Lammy for about four years now with no complaints. They do yellow around the edges fairly quickly but the yellowing does not continue to creep inwards. As for maintainance, they are fairly easy to wipe down - I use WD40 for the grimy stuff. 4 years on & they still look good & have quite a bit of tread. They do not grip at all well in heavy rain though.

I've heard that they're being manufactured elsewhere these days & that the quality has suffered so the above may be of absolutely no practical use to you.

I've used inserts in the past & those were difficult to maintain & keep smooth against the tires.

CJ


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slc_dan
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 08:46 PM (EDT)
 
49. "sounds' like school boy's"
In response to message #48
 
   I haven't heard shit talking like this since the bully in 2nd grade. What's the next thing you are going to say, "my brother can beat up your brother"? come on guy's grow up


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FrankB
unregistered user
 May-06-04, 08:48 PM (EDT)
 
50. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #48
 
   <<I use WD40 for the grimy stuff.>>

Try SOS or Brillo pads - This comes from my awesome Father In Law who builds Hot Rods from scratch - it even beats Westley's bleach white.

FrankB


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g
Member since Apr-25-03
849 posts		 May-06-04, 09:39 PM (EDT)
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52. "RE: White Wall Tires?"
In response to message #50
 
   I like all this trash talking, and besides my sister can beat up your brother. :))))((((: g.


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FB
unregistered user
 May-07-04, 08:36 AM (EDT)
 
53. "So?"
In response to message #52
 
   My cats harder than yours.


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Niall
unregistered user
 May-07-04, 10:20 AM (EDT)
 
54. "Well it's probably all been said"
In response to message #53
 
   too loud and too often, but...

Those sava trad pattern 3.5s are shit. full stop. So are any trad pattern tyres, including Michelin S83s. It's not just the tread pattern that is antedeluvian, it's the entire crossply fabric construction. Death traps.
I may be in the minority but I like grip and cornering ability, not to mention not dying, over "originality" any day.

However I ran the Sava 3x10 whitewalls on my smallframe for a year or so. These are sport construction and tread pattern (MC12 I believe), and they were fucking fine tyres, never split, didn't discolour (they got dirty but bleach cleaned them up a treat - they never turned brown like every conti I ever saw), and never punctured. I rode 20 miles a day, hard/lunatic city riding, every day for that time, in all weathers.

If I hadn't stuck a set of Michelin S1s on there and discovered a whole world of neverending grip (they are truly amazing and have spoiled me for any other tyre) I would hapilly buy the Savas again. Maybe on a retro bike I would use them.


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GS160 Guy
Member since Apr-13-04
63 posts		 May-07-04, 12:30 PM (EDT)
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55. "RE: Well it's probably all been said"
In response to message #54
 
   Right about S1's.
If anyone has never tried a set,give them a go.You'll be amazed at the improvement in handling and braking,aprticularly if you're used to traditional style tyres,no matter how good they are.


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